$2.8 million during the same period last year. all of our time for this news hour. real money with ali velshi is next. we'll send you off on your weekend. why? you just can't get enough. rob ford. [♪ music ] >> tensions with rush in ukraine. plus nine years after katrina how far has new orleans come. we'll talk to the man who restored order to the devastated city. and time to go back to school for college students. that means taking out more loans. we'll look at ways to avoid letting student debt destroy your financial future. i'm ali velshi, and this is "real money."

>> this is real money. tell us what is on your mind. hit us up at facebook. can the tensions over ukraine get any worse? russian president vladimir putin lashed out to the west. he said the west only supports peace talks as a smokes screen to allow ukraine to continue military operations. europe and america are threatening suffer sanctions against moscow. in the ukraine the russians still denying what everybody else knows to be true, russian forces are actively fighting on the side of the rebels in ukraine's civil war and now turning the table on ukrainian government forces. in a sign of how things look for ukrainian president petro poroshenko, he said that his country will seek to join the n.a.t.o. alliance. however unlikely that prospect is, it will just harden russia's

resolve to get in ukraine. there will come up with new sanctions to try to get russia to back off. so far the golden sanction that might compel russia to change course is off the table. that would be boycotting russian gas shipments to the european union. europe relies on russia's pipeline for more than a third of its energy needs, and the cost of doing that to e.u. economies is too high. but british prime minister david cameron said russia should be cut off from the international banking system by blocking it from using the swift money transfer network that banks use to move funds around the world. that was a tactic that was credited bringing iran to the negotiating table over its nuclear program. some estimates put the direct impact at around 1%. just enough to help tip the russian economy into recession.

russia's currency is slumped to an 11-year low against the dollar. that and russian counter sanctions on food imports from the west are helping to fuel inflation in russia. despite the pain russia is not about to back down in ukraine and with ukrainians threatening to bring the n.a.t.o. alliance closer to russian borders even the toughest sanctions in the world might not make russia budge. for more, we have this report. >> reporter: combat fall out in donetsk bring testament to the west failure over the crisis in ukraine. since march the west has ratcheted up sanctions against russia. the squeeze on russian economy has not convinced putin to change course on ukraine, and

the kremlin hit back by banning western food imports. thursday as rhetoric in the crisis escalated with ukraine accusing russia of invading its territory, u.s. president abraham said there was room to get tougher with sanctions. >> i think there are ways for us to deepen or expand the scope of some of that work. >> reporter: the west could still deal a crippling blow by cutting off access to international payment systems such as the worldwide inter bank financial telecommunications or swift. the financial messaging service that allows businesses to move funds internationally. >> if we cut them off from that we could force a very rapid adjustment o of the sort we saw i in 2008 in global markets. >> reporter: blocking access to the swift system was intreatmental that forced iran to the negotiating table over its nuclear program. but russia has far deeper ties with the global economy.

drastic sanctions that hobble it's ability to move money through officials channels would not be painless for the west especially for european economies that rely heavily on russian energy and which so far failed to match u.s. sanctions blow-for-blow. al jazeera. >> well, european leaders are scheduled to meet in brussels to discuss new e.u. sanctions on russia. let's go to susan director of eurasian programs, a watchdog organization in washington. she joins us now via phone. susan, thank you for joining us. at one point--at what point are these sanctions not effective because russia's goal is not being affected by them? >> i think those sanctions have been effective to some extent so far. they've been limited in scope.

is there clear evidence that russia has invaded ukraine with troops and serious weaponry, that it's time to consider broad sectorial sanctions. that has not happened yet. first and foremost, financial sector sanctions. many analysts say that could have a seismic affect on the ira russian economy. the next would be the energy sector. this would be difficult for countries dependent on russian gas. and then sanctions additional entities would also i think have big effect on the russian economy. >> susan, at one point one has to wonder there seems to be n.a.t.o. evidence, satellite

imagery of military vehicles moving into ukraine. ukraine captured some russian soldiers the other day who claimed that they didn't have a road map. they were lost and ended up on the ukrainian side. we're not calling it an invasion. we're not calling it war yet because there are implications to using those words from an official and governmental perspective, but it seems like that is what it is. >> absolutely. what do you call it when it brings in several thousand by estimates troops who are in formation and bringing in heavy weaponry, tanks, and armored personnel. that's sounding like an invasion. to be clear russia has been escalating this over the course of many months as it continues to lie and says it wasn't, but

it has been slowly invading ukraine for months now. >> it's a technicality, but ukraine is not a member of n.a.t.o. which means the west is not forced to behave as if it's an attack. if you're a n.a.t.o. country and someone else attacks you, there is an obligation and it is fairly immediate to respond. we've had concerns from estonia, poland, lithuania and latvia about how russia is behaving, but if you're removed one border away from russia your anxiety about this seems to be lower. >> right. you crane is in a state of high anxiety, and i think ukraine is disappointed that the u.s. has not provided greater backing. the point is now to consider

what the west could provide in providing greater support providing greater intelligence, providing supplies being more responsive to ukraine's needs and drive out the russian invasion. >> that continues to be very intriguing set of developments. we'll have to see what the european do over the course of the weekend. susan corke is the director of eurasiaen programs at freedom house. keep it here. you're watching real money.

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stuart! stuart! stuart! stuart! ♪ check it out. this my account thing. we can tweet directly toa comcast expert for help. or we can select a time for them to call us back. the future, right? ♪ this doesn't do it for you? [ doorbell rings, dog barks ] oh, that's what blows your mind -- the advanced technology of a doorbell.. [ male announcer ] tweet an expert and schedule a callback from any device. introducing the xfinity my account app. >> al jazeera america presents >> i don't want to work at the farm for my entire life. >> 15 stories one incredible journey edge of eighteen premiers september 7th only on al jazeera america >> let's talk stocks for a minute.

we don't do it all that much on this show but the stocks you have in your 401k and ira often mimic the sap s&p 500 by design. august saw the s&p 500's best performance, best monthly performance in 14 years. the index is up 8.2% for the year so far. that's okay. it's not the best we've seen. even so, all indices are not created equal, and it's important for you to understand the differences when you're looking to make investment decisions that affect your long-term prosperity, buying, selling, rebalancing, whatever it is. because billions of dollars of retirement money are tied to market indices. and there are differences in how each index is calculated. i'm bringing in the co-founder of capital management.

he joins us from garden city, new york. don't explain it all. just a little bit. explain why--how the dow, which is 30 stocks, is different from the s&p 500 because these are the two most often quoted. >> that's true. the biggest difference is that the dow is set up with those 30 stocks with the stock that has the highest price per share. it has nothing to do with the size of the company. just the biggest price per share downward. and the s&p 500 is in order of the largest companies in america, the biggest ones get the highest perrage, and down you go. that's how they're weighted within the index. >> let me give you an examiner oexample of how this works. this is the dow versus the s&p 500. if go back to the beginning o of 2013 if you had $100 in the

dow you gained 30%. 29.65%. if you're in s&p 500, 32.39%. over that period of time they have not been that different. but look at since the beginning of this year, doug, the dow has returned you 4.72% while the s&p 509.5%. tell me why. >> well, the difference is if you take a look at the holdings in the dow and the top holdings in there the biggest one is visa, and see visa has a negative return so far year-to-date. when one out of every $0.12 is invested in visa is negative, that will hold you down and away yoweigh you back. conversely. the s&p 500, you've seen a momentum move into technology

and growth year to date, and it's the underlying stocks that make up these indexes that really tell you what kind of return you're going to get. that's what escapes people. they think of the market, the dow and s&p, they don't think of individual security, and what you invest dictates how well you're going to do, and year to date it has swung from technology and growth. >> i'm an investor. i'm a passive investor which means they may check their investment a couple times a year, and i like to say diversified so i'm in the dow verses i'm that same investor and i'm in the s&p 500. historically they have moved largely in lock step. this year is an unusual example. >> that's a great point. that's true if you look at over ten years or longer. they're pretty good indicator of how the markets are performing. they're similar. but you do have pockets of time. you have to ask yourself this

question. if i believe technology is an example. that's about 18% of the s&p. it's only 11% of the dow. the dow is much more value-stock oriented, dividended oriented, and some would say a little bit more less volatile than the s&p. right now the make up that it is. where do i think the markets are going? do i like apple and google and those types of companies that are very large and growth-oriented. if i do, that would lean me towards the s&p. if you look at the weighting in price to earnings ratio, you can use it as an indicator of how things are valued the s&p 500 is right around 17, which is historically the number. but the dow is only 15. what it tells you is that there has been a move towards growth, towards technology to favor the s&p. we just don't know if that's going to continue. if it does turn around you might

find a little down side protection on the dow right now. >> because the dow is relative to the s&p 500. a little under valued. >> a little under valued. it has more value stalks. the dow leans towards the value type of stocks, which are dividend payers. only 23% of the dow is in the growth category. where a full one-third is in the s&p category. as growth goes that leans you more towards how the s&p does. if that turns around or it runs its course and there is a correction in growth and tech stocks hit a little ladderrer you'll find the s&p go down more than the dow, which has more of the value type stocks there. >> if i'm an auto-pilot kind of guy, and i just want to dump my money into one or another. that's a little unsophisticated. if you're going to be on auto pilot you should have a few more things in that pie. but if one dumps his money in the dow or the other, does make

a difference. >> if you're more conservative in nature as the markets get higher and higher and the s&p 500 pulling away and in terms of valuations getting overvalued you would find less than that in the dow. you might lean as a conservative investor into those stocks in the dow. they appeal to those who might have more of a dividend tilt. so one doesn't necessarily isn't better than the other. i think the s&p is more in favor of how the underlying stocks are. but once that runs its course you find a little bit more value in the dow type of stocks, and also as a more conservative investor that might appeal to them. it doesn't make it right or wrong. just what kind of investor are you? what is your risk tolerance. >> the co-founder of flynn zitto

capital management. hurricane katrina was the cause of one of the deadliest natural disasters to ever hit the united states. >> now nine years later the man they call the category five general shares his thoughts about those days in new orleans and what they have in non-with recencommon with ferguson, missouri. >> you don't point guns at people, women and children to intimidate them. >> my revealing interview with the general is next.

>> nine years ago today one of the deadliest storms in u.s.

history barreled into the gulf coast hurricane katrina category 3 storm whipped through the region with 127 miles per hour winds and left 1800 people dead. but the storm was not just deadly but one of the country's most expensive storms. all told katrina caused $108 billion in damage. the federal emergency management agency, or fema, called it the most singl single most damaging natural disaster. a fifth a louisianian live in poverty. resident are still rebuilding. jonathan martin joins us from new orleans. let's tart with the basics. they're having trouble getting lights on down there nine years later. why? >> yes, it's still a big issue.

really it boils down to priorities. we were at a community meeting with the mayor. he said, we have a shortage on the police force. we have streets that are messed up. we have lights that still have not been fixed nine years later and we have a big budget issue. you mentioned poverty. a lot of people have been able to rebuild their lives. you come downtown and you see hospitality industry has bounced back. but you go into the lower ninth ward and little has changed. about 25% of the people here in the new orleans area are still considered below poverty. living below the poverty line. the homeless population is also something that is a big issue here. because right after katrina, you might remember homelessness peaked in the city with 20,000 people considered homeless. that has gone down significantly. now they say there are 3,000 or 4,000 on any give night.

still a lot of concerns nine years later. >> the jazz festival, mardi gras, this was a tourist town. how is it now? >> i'll tell you the tourism part of it is back. everyone knows that tourism and the hospitality industry is a big part of the backbone of new orleans. before katrina there were 800 restaurant here in the city. now there are some 1400. so there is double the number of restaurant. that is a good sign but as i say, if you go into the neighborhoods the lights are the big thing. the issues that everyone is concerned about. there are 20,000 homes that are considered blighted properties. that's the main thing that people are concerned about. reduce the blight count by 10,000 properties and people say what about my neighborhood? there are still rows and rows of homes still in really bad shape. >> jonathan, good to see you. jonathan martin joining us from new orleans. widespread power outages, flooding, looting, all growing

to a sense of desperation experienced by the evacuees in the aftermath of hurricane katrina. but that all changed when there was coordinated relief earthe efforts. i sat down to ask him what has taken place in his home of louisiana. >> i was first army commander to revise military support to civil authority. we got that mission on a warning orders over the weekend while katrina was hitting, and orders to deploy from mississippi where my headquarters were at the time into new orleans on tuesday evening. >> when you say provides support to civil authorities, what were the problems? what was the mess you walked in to? people were homeless.

fema's response was a disaster. more than a million people had been displaced. all that stuff was going on in downtown new orleans. tell me what you saw and how you responded. >> the priority we received from the governor of louisiana was to save people's lives, conduct evacuations in the state of new orleans. provide food and water to people throughout the region who were affected by the storm, and we had the same order to assist in mississippi. that was the focus that a lot of people focused on new orleans. but as you know the disaster was bigger in new orleans. as it happened we had over 30,000 people in the city of new orleans that needed to be evacuated. >> and new orleans and those regions around have been rebuilding since 2005. new orleans has posed a particular problem. the city's population is almost back up to pre-katrina levels. that was the saddest part, the people who had to leave and make somewhere else their homes.

but we hear that the police department was slow or no responses to 911 calls. new orleans' police department said it lost 500 police to resignation or retirement. when you look at that count in the place you are from, how do you police the number of people who are pre-katrina levels with the force gone. >> new orleans for the size would be a normal city, but we're a destination. people come from all around the world. we have the super bowl, mardi gras and festivals throughout the year. we need a bigger police by probably 400 or 500 more added to it. the issue is how do you pay for it, and how do you keep that police department resource so they can be a world class police department. with all due respect i think if we had better pay, if we had a professional development, and we had more officers this department would become better overnight. >> that's a historic problem in

new orleans where there was corruption all those years ago because cops were getting paid far less than someone else could pay them to not be cops. this is a big issue. new orleans enjoys that status of almost being a world class city. it's one of the most visited places in the country. it's historic. beautiful, a great culture, how in danger is new orleans to slipping back into chaos? >> well, i think we got the hand on the wheel here. the mayor and the leadership here is not going to let that happen. they understand what they got to do. so many problems are created by a state government who they believe they can determine what the tax rates are in new orleans. if new orleans was left to its own we could solve this problem. but we have a state government who keeps its hand on new orleans almost oppressive to the city. people have to speak up. this city is better now. we have more hotels than we had before katrina, more restaurant. we are a city of entrepreneurial

center in the south and globally people with coming here to start businesses. there is a lot of opportunities in new orleans. but we still have nearly over 25% of our population in poverty. those are the challenges we have. this city has come a long way with a lot of federal help since katrina. >> you wrote a great book about leadership, and there was talk that you may run for louisiana governor. when i hear you talk and i think of the way you behaved and the criticisms that you have, you said your platform wouldn't win but you're a son of louisiana. this is very clearly very personal for you. would you consider running at governor? >> yes, everybody i talked to about platform we've got to rebuilding our education. we have five different education platforms in the state, and we're second to last. we're the third largest energy producer and second poorest state. the way we structure tax, the

way we do schools, health wear, it would all have to change, and the rich people who make these decisions won't allow that to happen. my platform won't win. >> does that mean you won't run? >> it won't win. >> we'll revisit that with you. you've seen this a millions time. but there is an iconic video of you from the early days of katrina telling police and your men and women to put down their weapons. let's listen to this. >> hey, weapons down! weapons down! dammit! put your weapons down. >> and you're getting cheered on by people around you. shades of that issue, of militarized police. of police versus civil authorities were raised in verizon gus son, missouri. you have been critical of the response by officers. you have been quoted how you would do it differently. >> people expressing their first amendment right.

in new orleans we had a different situation. police came in with the perception that people in the city would hurt them. they were treated as the enemy. we told them to put the guns down. what i told in ferguson was a total wrong response. every policeman i talked to police chiefs around the country that we've engaged with, that is not the right response. when people are exercising their first amendment. when people practice disobedience, and you need to arrest them, you don't point guns at women and children to intimidate them. all those police need to be retrained. they have overresponded. they have time now, i hope they get retrained. i hope they use that federal money to buy more training and not more equipment. more training and do the professional development. you will not be pointing weapons at our american citizens. >> general, always a pleasure to see you.

and thank you for your service to your country and what you did nine years ago. and i hope to have a conversation with you when you tell me that you are running for governor. >> good day. >> thank you, sir. >> an oil tanker that had been parked off the coast of texas carrying $100 million worth of crude oil has disappeared. the ais tracking system that the coast guard uses to track ships shows no sign of the tanker. the reason we care is that this is no ordinary cargo. the crude comes from iraq's kurdistan region. the iraqi kurds have been looking for a buyer. their hope to find a way to start creating revenue for their own region. but baghdad says that oil belongs to iraq central government. it's filed a lawsuit in the united states to reclaim the cargo. in the meantime, thisship has been traversing the globe looking for a buyer. the fact that it has now left texas suggests it may have found one. well, brazil got news it

didn't want to hear. why an one-time emerging market star is now being stifled. how bad is it? that's next.

>> a blow today to brazil. the country once seen as the leader in growth of sow called emerging market countries fell into recession in the three months ending in june. economic output fell by .6 of 1% compared to the previous three months and revised figures show a drop of .2 of 1% in the first three months of the year.

all of this comes at a key time for latin america's largest economy. presidential elections will be held next month and the economy has been a central issue. >> reporter: with the population of 200 million people brazil is the world's seventh wealthiest economy and the planet's largest coffee producer and the world's largest producer of civil aircraft behind airbus and boeing. the country had lifted millions out of poverty. the percentage of people living on $2 a day has foulen from 21% of the population in 2003 to 11% in 2009. and people living in extreme poverty just $1.25 a day has fallen from 10% in 2004 to just 2.2% in 2009. many of those successes were due in large part to the policies of the country's hugely popular former president.

but his hand picked successor has become considerably less popular. current polls show her trailing badly in her re-election bid which is just five weeks away. right before she came into office a majority of brazilians said that the economy was in good shape. now a majority actually says it's in badship. >> reporter: that dissatisfaction comes in four years of poor economic policies which failed to stimulate domestic demand or attract investment. the dgdp growth rate declining to just 2.3% in 2014. in the past year brazilians have taken to the streets to protest rising inflation, corruption, and a lack of investment in public services. the country's $11 billion investment in the world cup is considered to have been an

economic failure and critics charge schools, hospitals, and public transportation remain chronically underfunded. a recent poll showed 72% of brazilians are dissatisfied with the way things are going in their country and that's up from 46% in 2011. >> we don't usually see that except in countries that have experienced a lot turmoil such as egypt during the arab spring or countries who have gone through crisis, which is not brazil. >> reporter: for now all eyes are on its presidential election. mary snow, al jazeera. >> well, this news comes a month after all eyes were on brazil hosting the world cup. the world cup actually disrupted economics growth. vivian rodriguez for the financial times. one would assume, i don't even know if we should assume this any more but one has typically assumed that olympics and world

cups are great for your economy, but increasingly we're seeing that does not pain out. >> it's a huge debate offende around the world. but you have to realize that brazil gave government holidays, there was a lot of disruption where there was several days of no work at all. the gdp suffered a little bit from those disruptions. it wasn't a good performance, absolutely. >> what has happened from those heady days of 7.5% growth and people not only talking about brazil, but looking to brazil for example. i remember here in the united states when we started subsidizing ethanol for gas lean. look at how brazil handles their subsidies and their use of scrap bio. it became a thing of the future.

what happened? >> well, a lot of thing happened. first of all we have to realize that the united states actually was the stimulus here. that effected brazil and china has affected brazil. we've had a serious intervention controls changing regulations, meddling with some of the largest companies in the country and corruption even dramatic to a point. you just see the economy slowly slowing. supeinterest rates and there are a lot of factors basically hitting the country all at once. >> the thing about the world cup, it was a great punctuation, something towards brazil was

working. they had earned it in the days when they were a heady economy. they also got the olympics in 2016. how does what just happened going to affect what is going to happen. >> hopefully the structure built for the olympics, it's done there so we don't need to repeat and have the same level of ex expenditures. but the world cup was a tremendous expenditure for brazil, whether this is going to give boost or economic increase to the country, we don't know. maybe tourist. >> tourism is always good. it's a good marketing play but it tends to be expensive. >> yes. >> well, student debt keeps rising 37 million americans are holding a whopping trillion dollars in debt. what's the problem? probably not what you think. you're watching real money.

>> the labor day weekend is here. the last big ho rrah before i said go back to college. a loan default is damaging to a

borrowers credit, and can even do harm when he or she goes to apply for a job, but not everyone is aware of the dangers of default and how to avoid it. >> this is good. >> 34-year-old evangeline buyers working the room at the college. >> anyone with student loan debt? she just graduated with $26,000 in student loans. a bill she didn't fully anticipate when she originally took them out. >> i really didn't understand that while i was still taking classes i was being charged interest on loans and the loans were due basically immediately after taking them out. >> nor did she know how default on those loans could destroy her future plans to study law. >> if you're defaulting on your student loans and you're trying to go to graduate school.

that could mean that you don't have access loans any more. if you're trying to access any type of loan, not happening. >> the dangers of defaulting on student loans is poorly understand. only 28% of the respondents realize failure to repay doesn student loans effect poor credit , garnished wages and tax refunds withheld. >> i believe this is one of the biggest civil rights issues. >> one that she's tackling by encouraging her federal alum to sign up for income-based repayment. a federal program that allows borrowers to cap discretionary mcand avoid a default. >> paying back on time is a good start but borrowers need to be

aware that programs exist to prevent them from falling into default. the companies paid $1 billion to service student loans don't always tell borrowers about their options. >> there are many americans who are in default in student loans and it's troubling that most of them could have avoided that. >> we don't know how many people specifically are getting incorrect information from their servicers, but the cfbp does receive thousands of complaints from borrowers about student loans servicing. >> you can go online to www.whitehouse.gov. >> in the meantime she's giving talks and collecting e-mails with the goal of signing up 10,000 student debtors by

november. >> do not trust the service man. trust all of the people who are doing work around student debt, continue to check the website. continue to stay connected, to get the best information available to you. >> al jazeera, new york. >> now, enrollment of these types of income based repayment programs is not very high despite the high number of students we're seeing these days. mark has been studying this issue for 20 years. he is publisher of financial aid planning services website. he joins now from los angele las vegas. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> at what point does the woman who says i didn't know as i was going to school that mil my interest would be racking up at the same time. that's the basic of a loan. you buy a house, you would be paying interest. you get a loan while you get education, why wouldn't you be

paying interest while you get your education. >> well, on the federal subsidized loan the interest rate is zero. but it's with the unsubsidized loans that it accrues from the start. >> when they get the loan, is the information just not out there? are people not reading? >> partly students are chasing a dream and they figure they'll figure out the loans after they graduate as opposed to when they start. there are entrants and exit counseling, and when you're about to graduate you go through exit counseling which reviews the terms of the loans. opportunities who drop out of college, however, don't go through exit counseling, and they're four times more likely to default on the loans than students who graduate. >> is there any valid reason to be defaulting on a loan?

at what point is that something that you should be thinking about? >> there is no strategic benefit to defaulting on a loan. the monthly payment is going to be higher than the monthly payment under income based repayment. you'll pay more money if you default. >> is there always an administrative wage garnishment? if you go through bankruptcy do you get to shed your loan? >> student loans federal and private federal loans are almost impossible to discharge in bankruptcy. less than 0.04% of students who filed for bankruptcy succeeded in getting a full or partial discharge of their student loans. >> one of the things you argue for is that there should be more grants out there than loans. explain why you think that. >> part of the problem is the burden of paying for college has shifted from the government to the families. grants have not been keeping pace with increases in college costs. family incomes have been flat.

the only way families can deal with increasing college costs is either to attend a lower cost college or to borrow more. the debt at graduation has been increasing by 1,000 to $2,000 a year for the past several decades. >> interesting conversation. mark, it's good to talk with you. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> senior v.p. of ed advisers.com. if you find yours changing careers and looking for a new job in a new area, what is that college degree even worth? we'll give you the answer next. >> i'm john seigenthaler in new york. coming up right after "real money," the threat from the islamic state group has caused the u.k. to raise its terror threat level to severe. what is the risk to the united

states? and ukraine looks for military help from the west and wants full membership in any toe. how that request could complicate the battle with russia, plus what vladimir putin has to stay about it. all that and more coming up right after "real money." we'll see you then. >> fault lines labor day marathon the true cost of cheap labor >> nothing can be worse than this people burnt to ash... >> horrendous conditions... traffic labor on us bases... management stealing wages... exploited children put to work... >> how many of you get up

at 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning to go out to the fields? don't miss our award winning series fault lines labor day marathon only on al jazeera america >> throughout the year we've been tracking the ups and downs of three families throughout our series of america's middle class rebuilding the american dream. we'll hear from the sabino family. the couple say they live paycheck to paycheck. phil works the overnight at ups. until a few months ago diane worked at a school cafeteria. recently she landed a new job with the possibility of a quick promotion if she passes a crucial test. >> i'm on my way to the dmv. i got to take my general

knowledge test. not easy. i failed it twice, i'm going back. once i get that i could drive a bus. instead of being a bus assistant which is fine. >> i was working in the school kitchen and i left because there is always a threat that they're going to have a catering service come in. you know what, before they get rid of me, i filled out an application. i met with the lady, and she hired me. she hired me as a bus assistant. >> i'm excited. it's a great opportunity for. >> but so far i passed the passenger, the school bus and i have to pass the general knowledge, which is not easy. i study, i take the test on the computer, i pass the test on the computer. i go to the dmv, done, fail. i keep on trying. i'm not giving up on that. i'll make a little less money but they guarantee me hours and in this company i have room to build.

in 90 days i get a raise and a little bonus. in six months they give me another raise. in a year they give me another raise. once i become a driver, forget it. the money is great. i got up to number 43, and i failed. so i try again. i'll be okay. >> you'll move up. that's the idea. you move up. >> i will. but are you okay that my salary is going to be a little less. >> as long as you have a future. you get paid holidays, it's a stable job. you won't have to worry about if you're going to lose your job. it's stressful. so i'm very excited. it's going to be a good opportunity. you're starting a new career. >> okay, good, i'm excited, too. high five. cool. i'm excited. >> about a third of middle ages americans say they plan to change their careers over the next five years. that's according to a poll taken

by usa today. the top motivator today, less stress, more work-life balance and a desire to do something different. there are several factors that will increase the odds of successfully engineering a job or career switch. tony, director and research professor of the georgetown university center on education in the workforce joins us now from washington, d.c. tony, one of the people who has really studied this most. tony, good to see you. thank you so much. the idea--i mean, we can all get on the web and find best paying jobs and jobs that have the most openings over the next ten years but that is not entirely relevant for people who are mid career or middle aged. is diane sabino doing the right thing? >> she's doing exactly the right thing. if you want to get a new job after you've had one for a while you got to find a way to catch up very fast and the way to do that is to get some focused training or education, and then

get some proof that you can do a new job. she's taking a test, that in the end is what 30 million americans now have test-based certifications to get licenses or certificates in particular occupations. >> you have used construction as an example of the kind of thing where the barrier to entry is relatively low, but then you can start to specialize. >> one of the things you can do still and it's something that males do still a lot, you can be a high school graduate in america, work for a while. go into construction and then you start to get certificatecations. you study and take an exam and you become a crane operator. you study more and you can become a supervisor for technical workers. there is a pathway that's outside of the traditional education system that allows to you get proof that you can do the work, and almost in all

cases in the case of test-based certification also get a job. >> tony, you and i talked a couple years ago about the struggle that a lot of manufacturing workers have. they may have been okay. they may have made it through the worst of the cuts, but ultimately they may be 40 and 50 years old, and you could guess that your job meeting eliminated in the next ten years. you could start to make the switch to something else, but people say i won't earn the same salary if i make the career switch at this point. >> in the end you have to find out what your particular experience translates to in a new job. in many cases in community colleges and four year schools you can get credit for your experience. that will help you get to a degree. but the key issue is which certificate, which degree, and what job does that lead to? in the case of manufacturing workers oftentimes they have very good technical skills. so it's relatively easy for them to move into other technical

occupation. computers have been one where there is a fair amount of success for manufacturing workers looking to make a chan change. >> we definitely see in tough times, and things are getting better, but in times of recession people who either lose their jobs involtairely, or people who leave their jobs because they're done with the rat race, they want to start their own business. i don't know if it's the best motivation to go out and start your own business, but it does work for some people. >> in the end the ability to start your own business depends on two different kinds of skills. one is can you build and run a business? sometimes that's the only skill you need. the other kind of skill is if you're particularly good at something. if you can make cupcakes and make them well you can go into the cupcake business, but you're going to have to learn how to run a business. it's a particular talent or

passion or a general ability to turn capital, and you have to have capital, into an ongoing operation using other people's skills. >> tony, always a pleasure to talk with you. tony, director and research profession of georgetown university. >> burger king is accused of quitting america and moving toed in but it's not the first iconic brand to use this tax trick. and also making sense of the racial disperty in ferguson, missouri, where two members of the population is black but only one member of the council is. that's sunday at 2:00 eastern an5:00 pacific5:00 eastern and 2:00 pacific. perhaps we should take a cue from germany.

dimler came on a mail on holiday program. if an employee is on vacation. the e-mail will be directed to someone else in the company that can answer a pressing matter. then the e-mail is deleted so your inbox is not crammed when you check your e-mail again. they have put e-mails on evening hours. could it work in the united states? author cleav cleave johnson came up with a no message zone. it failed by 11%. but productivity was not affected. if you're wearing authorities and flip flops maybe you should think twice on hitting rely on work e-mails this weekend. try it. see what happens. i'm ali velshi. have a great holiday.

>> hi everyone, this is aljazee. i'm john siegenthaler in new york. the risk after the u.k. raises is terror threat level. what are the issues for the united states for the islamic state group. boiling point. ukrainian pushes for full membership in the united nations. nearly half all syrians forced to leave their homes because of